WFC Wells Fargo and Company

   By WSJ STAFF 
 

Wells Fargo & Co. Chief Executive John Stumpf took quite a beating when he appeared last week before a Senate committee. Now, it's time for Round 2: He goes before the House Financial Services Committee to talk about his bank's allegedly "widespread illegal" sales practices Thursday.

We're chronciling the hearing as it unfolds, offering a blow-by-blow account and some real-time analysis of the proceedings. Read the full coverage here: http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2016/09/29/wells-fargo-ceo-faces-latest-congressional-grilling-live-analysis/

2:40: Some final thoughts

We'll end it with these final thoughts: At times today, it seemed that Mr. Stumpf was struggling to mount a defense in the face of repeated attacks over the bank's sales practices.

"You ought to be downright ashamed of yourself," Rep. David Scott (D, Ga.) told the 63-year-old chief executive at one point.

Though Mr. Stumpf came to the committee with more statistics to share, including the $41 million in compensation he had agreed to forgo because of the sales problems, he was often cut off by representatives eager to use their allotted time to criticize the bank and Mr. Stumpf's leadership.

He again expressed regret for his company's actions and said Wells Fargo's board was working to investigate how problems with sham accounts and unauthorized meddling in customer business snowballed over five years. But at times he didn't have specific answers to defend the bank's actions.

Thanks for joining us.

2:39: Another Wells Fargo settlement announced today

One issue that was raised a few times in today's hearing: Wells Fargo today reached a settlement with the Justice Department and federal regulators over allegedly improper repossessions of cars belonging to members of the U.S. military, according to people familiar with the deal. It will pay $24 million as a result.

The Congressmen kept hitting on the idea that Wells Fargo seems at times to treat such fines as the cost of doing business, a charge that Mr. Stumpf denied.

2:18: Who is Mary Mack?

One congressman briefly mentioned a Wells Fargo official who hasn't gotten much attention but who will likely play a key role in the bank's attempts to pull itself out of its sales-practice mess: Mary Mack, who the bank said in July would take over from Carrie Tolstedt as head of community banking.

Ms. Mack has been head of Wells Fargo Advisors, the bank's national retail brokerage unit.

2:16: 'You're asleep over there!'

Mr. Stumpf stumbles, slightly, with the final member of Congress, granting Rep. Bruce Poliquin of Maine a promotion to senator.

"You're asleep over there," Rep. Poliquin shouts at him, at the end of more than four hours of testimony.

In response to the congressman's comment that Wells Fargo has faced repeated actions from regulators, Mr. Stumpf concludes: "Every one, we've learned from. We are trying to do a better job."

2:15: Credit unions are fantastic cross-sellers

Once again, lawmakers claim to love community banks and credit unions and despise big banks. Many in the hearing have said Wells Fargo's behavior runs counter to community banks' culture of integrity. A few weeks ago, we looked at the cross-selling rates of smaller banks, who don't do it so well, and credit unions, who are the best at cross-selling of anyone.

2:08: Are we there yet?

Mr. Stumpf has at least twice declined to say how long the board's internal investigation will take. Yesterday's Wall Street Journal noted that the internal investigation is expected to take a few months, but could wrap up by year-end, people familiar with the board said.

2:08: Are we there yet?

Mr. Stumpf has at least twice declined to say how long the board's internal investigation will take. Yesterday's Wall Street Journal noted that the internal investigation is expected to take a few months, but could wrap up by year-end, people familiar with the board said.

2:03: Stumpf has spoken with Buffett

In response to a question from Rep. French Hill of Arkansas, Mr. Stumpf says he has had one conversation with Mr. Buffett recently. As we noted previously, Mr. Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is by far Wells Fargo's largest shareholder, and Mr. Buffett has said he won't be speaking publicly about this issue for a few more weeks.

Mr. French reads to Mr. Stumpf an excerpt from some famous Congressional testimony by Mr. Buffett from 1991 after he stepped in as chairman of a floundering Salomon Brothers. He told legislators that his message to employees then was: "Lose money for the firm, and I will be understanding. Lose a shred of reputation for the firm, and I will be ruthless.

Mr. Stumpf responds: "I agree with that."

Mr. Buffett has not responded to our requests for comment on Wells Fargo's issues in recent days.

1:54: Maxine Waters calls for Wells Fargo break-up

Maxine Waters joined some of her House Financial Services colleagues in calling for the break-up of Wells Fargo.

While others have called for the break-up earlier, Rep. Waters is the highest ranking House member to have done so. She is the ranking Democratic member of the Financial Services committee.

She not only called for the break-up but seemed to indicate she would take action to bring it about.

"I'm moving forward to break-up Wells Fargo," she said.

Of course, her ability to do so is limited as her party doesn't control the House and is not considered likely to take control this fall.

1:48 - Congressman wants Stumpf to think about what he's done

Democrat Denny Heck of Washington says's he's not going to ask for Mr. Stumpf's resignation. But then he reads back some of Mr. Stumpf's words today, including: "I'm going to make it right."

He tells Mr. Stumpf, essentially, to sit in a quiet room and think about what he's done… and how he's going to make it right.

1:45 Time to split the CEO and board chairs at the big banks

Aaron Back at Heard on the Street finds a sliver lining in the Wells Fargo scandal.

One positive legacy of the Wells Fargo sales fiasco may be that it resurrects the issue of separating the roles of chief executive and board chairman at major banks.

At Wells Fargo, John Stumpf holds both roles. Among the nation's six biggest banks, only Citigroup currently separates those positions. Many, like J.P. Morgan Chase, have successfully fended off shareholder proposals to split the roles.

1:41: Wells Fargo shares take a beating

Wells Fargo shares are taking a beating alongside a broader market selloff. The stock traded as low as $44.34 on Thursday, surpassing recent lows during market selloffs in June and February. That's the lowest since early 2014.

It's currently off 1.7% to $44.52.

1:39: Stumpf's clawback is 3rd largest

Francine McKenna at MarketWatch points out that John Stump's $41 million clawback is the third largest ever.

A MarketWatch analysis of forfeitures and so-called clawbacks of compensation by the Securities and Exchange Commission or by companies themselves shows that the Wells Fargo WFC, forced forfeiture of $41 million in future compensation by Chairman and CEO John Stumpf is neither the biggest nor the toughest ever.

1:32: Stumpf suggested his own clawback

Mr. Stumpf says he recommended his own clawback to Wells Fargo's board.

The bank, appearing to respond to last week's Congressional criticism, announced earlier this week that it was clawing back a big chunk of Mr. Stumpf's pay.

Mr. Stumpf has agreed to forgo all unvested equity awarded to him, worth $41 million; not take a bonus during 2016; take no salary during an independent investigation by the board; and recuse himself from all deliberations related to the bank's sales-tactics scandal.

He tells the committee that he recommended that clawback to the board after last week's Senate hearing. At that hearing, he said he didn't want to prejudice the board's deliberations on taking back his pay, but says he later changed his mind.

"It's what I thought was right," he says. But he also says the board could have to taken back more of his pay if they'd wanted.

The board also decided that another Wells Fargo executive named Carrie Tolstedt-who oversaw retail banking during bad behavior there-will forfeit unvested equity awards valued at $19 million. Mr. Stumpf said he did not weigh in on her clawback, but that her supervisor did.

1:18: John Stumpf: Bank teller?

John Stumpf just got asked if he's ever gone "undercover boss" and acted as a teller.

"I'm not trained or permitted to do that," he said.

He did say that he's visited around 1,000 branches over the last five years.

1:18: More on the credit score issue

Rep. Andy Barr (R, Ky.) is also addressing the credit-score concern that's been raised repeatedly.

He said he's concerned that people's credit scores were hurt through no fault of their own and said the bank's unauthorized opening of checking accounts may have resulted in overdraft fees and other charges that "could have very well damaged their credit scores."

1:14: Stumpf's compensation

Mr. Stumpf has made a lot of money over the years after hitting performance goals for his equity grants. He collected $142.49 million between 2011 and 2015 from performance-based stock awards, concluded an analysis by Equilar Inc., a consulting firm that tracks executive-pay practices.

During that period, the CEO's annual bonus totaled $19.1 million.

Ms. Tolstedt, the Wells Fargo executive who retired this week, collected $55.5 million from equity linked to performance plus $6.6 million in bonuses between 2011 and 2015, Equilar reported.

1:07: 'Trust and the faith and the belief in the system'

Rep. Jim Himes, D-Conn., urged Mr. Stumpf not to take refuge in the idea that Wells Fargo's problems were "not material." That determination is about much more than a legal definition, he said - "it's about the trust and the faith and the belief in the system" that the bank's actions have jeopardized. Without trust, he said, a dollar bill is just a piece of paper "with green ink on it."

Mr. Stumpf agreed that "trust is the absolute critical element, and we have a lot of work to do on that."

1:05: Room is emptying out

As the hearing gets into its third hour, many of the top members have left the room. Chairman Hensarling has passed the gavel to Rep. Randy Neugebauer, a subcommittee chairman. Presumably many are eager to leave to get home to focus on their re-election campaigns. Indeed, one congressman explicitly said he had a plane to catch.

12:48: Stumpf on message

No one is going to accuse Mr. Stumpf of being "low-energy."

After nearly three hours of often harsh criticism and pointed questions from Congress, he isn't showing any signs of weariness.

Lawmakers today have been almost uniformly hostile to Mr. Stumpf, but he has remained calm so far even as some have called for him to be fired and criminally investigated. He's largely stayed on message, repeatedly apologizing.

12:46: Concern about credit scores

Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R. Ind.) earlier expressed concern about Wells Fargo customers whose credit scores were dinged as a result of the bank opening unauthorized accounts in their name, echoing concerns raised in last week's Senate Banking Committee hearing. He referenced the roughly two million accounts that were opened, to which Mr. Stumpf suggested the impact would have been isolated to the customers who had the some 565,000 credit cards issued in their name. Mr. Stumpf has said several times during today's hearing that fewer than 25% of the card customers that have been contacted by the bank so far said that they didn't apply or couldn't recall applying for the cards.

12:42: A lot of members of Congress are Wells Fargo customers

One clear thing from this hearing is that many members of Congress are Wells Fargo customers. That makes sense since Wells Fargo has one of the most extensive branch networks of any U.S. bank and has a branch just a few blocks away from the Capitol building in DC. But that personal experience with the bank seems to be fueling their ire. Rep. Stutzman, a customer, complained a few minutes ago about Wells Fargo's website.

12:40: Stumpf on Dodd-Frank and financial regulation

Rep. Gwen Moore's final question was whether John Stumpf has said that Dodd-Frank "over-regulates" banks. He denied having said that.

She was most likely referring to some remarks Mr. Stumpf made at the national Press Club in September of 2014. In those remarks Stumpf offered qualified criticism and praise of post-financial crisis regulation.

"I think first of all, I'm in favor of good regulation. I want good, honorable competitors doing the right thing. That helps us. But I want to make sure we don't go overboard," Mr. Stumpf said.

He went on to note how much new regulation had been created.

"Now, where there is a disagreement is has enough been done to deal with this issue through Dodd-Frank and other things? And sometimes, one forgets how much has been done. So if I look back to 2008, we now have almost 14,000 pages of new rules written," he said.

He did, however, go on to defend the regulations. "Any one of these things I just talked about, whether it be enhanced requirements, different regulators, living wills, capital liquidity, all make sense in the singular. And in the aggregate, it's a large load. And my answer to critics would be give this stuff a chance to work," Mr. Stumpf said.

That was immediately qualified by a warning about over-regulation: "And by the way, there is an economic price, the economy does pay, if you are going to have over-regulation and too much capital and too much liquidity on the sidelines."

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

September 29, 2016 15:00 ET (19:00 GMT)

Copyright (c) 2016 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.